Tuesday, July 07, 2009

Here's something interesting

In a comment on this article
Paul said...
What I find strange, is that it seems fashionable now for athiests [sic] to pronounce moral judgements on Bible events. Strange because these debates predominate in cultures which have been built on the Judeo Christian ethic in the first place. In other words, the origin of the morals used to judge the Bible came from the Bible in the first place.

As a christian - am I concerned about the 42 "children" ripped apart by bears and seemingly justified by God? Well, put it this way - as my tiny nation (NZ) rapidly departs from its biblical belief system 18 thousand tiny, defenceless children were ripped apart in their mothers' wombs last year (up from 11,000 in 1990). Which do you think I'd be more concerned about? 42 dead "children" justified by God or 18,000 justified by athiests?

You tell me - as my country rids itself of the shackles of what you think is such a barbaric book, shouldn't it become less barbaric? Believe me - all the statistics (including violence against and murder of children) are running the other way. How do you explain that? Look at countries that ban(ned) the Bible... notice an increase in justice and equity as they did? No. Actually the opposite is true. Two or three from last century come to mind.

If you gut the Bible of its major theme, yes, many incidents appear barbaric and make for great blog reading for those who don't want to digest the actual book. But doesn't any book deserve to be read in its context?

The Bible reveals a titanic struggle between good and evil for the stupendously precious souls of men and women. From the Bible's viewpoint the eternal destiny of every soul, loved by God, hangs in the balance.

The Bible contains many warnings (Matt 10:28). How loving would God be if He wrote a book which demonstrated no consequences for disobedience or wilful choice to defy Him, when such disobedience and defiance, if not turned from, would result in the eternal destruction of the soul?

Sat Nov 10, 06:10:00 AM 2007

And yet the omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent being could change it all with less effort that it takes me to blink.


Starsplash said...

Not in the plan.

Al said...

Why is a being who needs nothing doing this?

The probligo said...

It is just one more case of a person trying to prove that their "intellect" surpasses the power of others' beliefs. It is just one more case of proving the futility of trying to debate their beliefs against those of another.

It is futile if only because there is no proof one way or the other. It is futile because it is simply a matter of belief; on both sides.

I have been through this debate of the relationship between "right" morality, societal expectations and religion. Other than being called a "moral relativist" many times I achieved very little.

For the truth is that the argument is "right" in one respect; the morality of our society is set by the predominant religion. As I stated in an attempted rebuttal, the morality of Malaysian society is likewise set, and would those espousing Christianity like to stand up and state openly that Malasia is an immoral society? Or, if you want to, subsitute Hindu and India?

That was the cause behind the "relativism" epithet.

There is an interesting debate going on; I have heard of it only in the past couple of weeks on the radio. It starts with the idea that "morality" in humans begins with a "altruism gene". I have tried to track down the debate - Nature might have it but it does not come up in google as yet.

Starsplash said...

lol, nope ain't trying to prove nothin, just saying that God could snap his fingers and end mankind misery instantly and open everyones eyes if he wanted to but that is not in his plan.

His plan is to cull his people from the rest of this mess in his timing. Not yours, not mine.


He open the eyes of those who he wants and closes the eyes of those who he wants.

In the case of both of you, your eyes were once opened but are now shut. In a sense I envy you but in the way of someone who is ignorant to the mack truck of future events barreling down on you, you two are ignorant or the calamities to come.
Yet you still get the forboding (I of course infer this by your ongoing concern for this world) that something bad is going to happen. Ie. your sweatting.

Starsplash said...

Okay the real answer to why is a being who has need nothing doing this.

Cause he wants to, something to do.

Al said...

So he's imperfectly entertained?

Starsplash said...

On that possible thread entertained by our imperfection, but more likely not in the entertaining himself mode.
If you ever do come to truly understand it would be more like when you and he are talking with each other you would be talking to yourself. However it is far from me to nail that one on the head.

The best answer you get is because he wants to, because he is God he gets to. Crazy dude says to me one day we are just puppets in a play.
ultimately that is what we are.

Al said...

Like the song says: http://oldwhig.blogspot.com/2009/06/rush-freewill.html

I myself have asked the question, if life is preparation for the afterlife, what on earth goes on there?

The problem is solved by ceasing to believe in things for which there is no evidence. Mr. Gordian Knot meet Mr. Sword.

Starsplash said...

The preperation is how much do you turn the other cheak, how much do you help others, your humility. Taking everything the world throws at you while you yet retain your faith.
Asking the question while trying to measure heaven by earthly or mans standards is sure to destroy your belief in heaven.

Al said...

But why try?

Starsplash said...

Because the meek shall inherit the earth.

Al said...

I'm humble before evidence, not unfounded assertions.

Starsplash said...

The evidence is there you are just unable to decern it. It is not invisible, you just ignore it minimalize it, negate it, scoff at it as non evidence or write it off as unexplained by science. But you will see one day.

Starsplash said...

Mat 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

Al said...

Excuses, excuses.

Starsplash said...

Is that it? All you have to say? Excuses excuses?

Al said...

I believe I posted my latest before you asked that question.