Saturday, November 28, 2009
I like this guy
I like Marc Stevens too. Here he is reading from Lysander Spooner's No Treason: The Constitution of No Authority:
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There is no law-maker but nature. And YOU are her prophet.
I like Marc Stevens too. Here he is reading from Lysander Spooner's No Treason: The Constitution of No Authority:
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19 comments:
So why doesn't the top guy move to another country?
And why doesn't the other guy do the same?
The fact is that every nation on earth has a peice of paper legitimizing their existance and there isn't but one guy who will be who needs no letigimizing document and yet there it is a legitimizing word on him too.
And yet I see the top guy sitting in a what appears to be a decent looking house; a house he occupies with a piece of paper legitmizing his claim to it.
Nooo the words written on a piece of paper are not the problem. The problem reside in mans heart not mans head.
As for the second guy. Good luck trying to convince the vast majority of people that the Constitution doesn't apply to them.
Anything else is just some kind of ocracy, ship, or archy. You know, run of the mill stuff mankind has seen before.
Neither one of them tried to sell you anything except the idea that rulers are all illegitimate.
That's the red pill.
Well, actually - to state it more fully - the red pill is the idea that there are no positive, unchosen obligations.
And it's not actually for sale. It's free.
There is not gong to be a time certainly in our life time where there are few enough people to not need a ruler, leader, or some group decision makers or diplomat to negotiate agreements between people that allows for some kind of mutual coexistance. That being the case and them sitting there in those nice little homes that were purchaed or are purchasing because there was some form of stucture that allowed for the construction and maintenance and the supply of material to accomplish such a task effeciently enough to tend to the shelter needs of hundreds of millions of people at the same time to me shows how childishly ignorant, foolish and superficially selfish those two are. However if they would just move to Canada they just might find the peace and quiet to satisfy thier apparent craving to be hermits. If not there then they could move to Alaska. Tons of wilderness there and they wouldn't have to go through a process through a governmet they so apparently hate. Otherwise I gaurentee you they are being hounded and watched by the very government they profess so much to hate by their vitriolic display and one sided discourse involving the denigration of any and all governments. I assure you that kind of behavior would not make them welcome in any nation on earth. In about 80% of the rest of the world they would probably end up in no less than a nut house. Most certainly ostracized and in some just plain old killed. They should count there lucky stars and just shut up cause this is as free as they are going to get and it can and will get much more worse I assure you of this as well. We will be lucky if it does not happen in our lifetime. But what about your kids Al, are you willing to sacrifice them to barbarism?
Do you think that the human emotion of greed will let men in a condition of anarchy stop them from robbing raping and killing your offspring or theirs. No, you and mankind would end up in the same cycle of kings and kingdoms with slavery and serfdom and can you gaurentee that you or your offspring would not be subjugated such as that? No. You can't and will never be able to. Nor will anyone else.
Men are in one sense little sheep but then amongst the sheep are predators. It is those predators that we cluster up one way or the other in some manner of mutual self defense against. Civilized men must. There is no other way.
If this is an attempt to begin the process of getting a new peice of paper it is certainly pathetic and damn dangerous and finally I would guess that they would not be willing to sacrifice there lives if everything they were talking about went south on them. I suspect they are just plain old cowards.
Have a fisking, Ron. You've earned it.
Starsplash said...
There is not going to be a time certainly in our life time...
Nobody’s claiming that.
...where there are few enough people to not need a ruler, leader, or some group decision makers or diplomat to negotiate agreements between people that allow for some kind of mutual coexistence.
Negotiators and diplomats don’t belong in the same group as those other people. And different tasks don’t have to be done by one, overriding group.
That being the case and them sitting there in those nice little homes that were purchased or are purchasing because there was some form of structure...
“Some form of structure” doesn’t require this particular structure.
...that allowed for the construction and maintenance and the supply of material to accomplish such a task efficiently enough to tend to the shelter needs of hundreds of millions of people at the same time to me shows how childishly ignorant, foolish and superficially selfish those two are. However if they would just move to Canada they just might find the peace and quiet to satisfy their apparent craving to be hermits. If not there then they could move to Alaska. Tons of wilderness there and they wouldn't have to go through a process through a government they so apparently hate.
No substance here that I can see.
Otherwise I guarantee you they are being hounded and watched by the very government they profess so much to hate by their vitriolic display and one sided discourse involving the denigration of any and all governments.
Which proves what?
I assure you that kind of behavior would not make them welcome in any nation on earth. In about 80% of the rest of the world they would probably end up in no less than a nut house. Most certainly ostracized and in some just plain old killed. They should count there lucky stars and just shut up cause this is as free as they are going to get and it can and will get much more worse I assure you of this as well.
It won’t get freer if we shut up.
We will be lucky if it does not happen in our lifetime. But what about your kids Al, are you willing to sacrifice them to barbarism?
False dichotomy.
12:33 AM
Do you think that the human emotion of greed will let men in a condition of anarchy stop them from robbing raping and killing your offspring or theirs.
That’s my job. And yours, if you will help me.
No, you and mankind would end up in the same cycle of kings and kingdoms with slavery and serfdom and can you guarantee that you or your offspring would not be subjugated such as that? No. You can't and will never be able to. Nor will anyone else.
You can’t guarantee that now.
Men are in one sense little sheep but then amongst the sheep are predators. It is those predators that we cluster up one way or the other in some manner of mutual self defense against. Civilized men must. There is no other way.
That’s what I’m saying.
If this is an attempt to begin the process of getting a new piece of paper it is certainly pathetic and damn dangerous and finally I would guess that they would not be willing to sacrifice their lives if everything they were talking about went south on them. I suspect they are just plain old cowards.
Who is risking the wrath of the biggest guns: them or you?
No spam.
Al what you do believe is that anarchy could prosper and I don't.
It is as simple as that. That is our primary disagreement. These men are complaining because they do not like living here in the U.S.. So Get out. The world is a big place and men have not setteled every where they can. These men are pining for a revolution and you think it can be peaceful.
It won't be. Are you and his kind willing to take responsibility for the blood that is shed over this? No you aren't.
How surprised you and those kind will be when the rest of civilized men make you responsible and punish you accordingly.
No matter what the ho is going down.
You're wrong.
Never wrong about this stuff.
You only think so because you don't look where the proof is. I don't know if you've noticed, but there are three books on anarchism linked on the sidebar now. And, of course, there's Spooner's book.
You seem to think that we're in a hurry. That's a very statist way of thinking.
What is going to happen in a hurry is the collapse of this government. Probably much faster than our ideas can be effectively disseminated. Then, perhaps, the guns will be pointed at me, but they're much more likely to go after big business and big talk radio. And the guys pointing the guns won't be anarchists.
I cannot expressed the outrage I feel over the fact that even after watching the top video people still, of course without any real argument as to why, think that a piece of paper can give a man (or group of men) the right to steal.
But I suppose I've been out of that mental cave for too long to be able to grasp just how deep into the rabbit hole they are.
Don't you people realize that government already IS a failure you're accusing the "anarchy" of leading to?
You say that if we remove government there will be chaos and violence. But we are already there! It already happened! It's like people saying that if we remove government there will be a gang of people who will give themselves the right to steal and kill and will take over.
Dudes, it already happened! That gang IS government and you've been living with it for so long you actually came to think they're your friends, that instead of being nothing but thieves and in many cases murderes they're actually there to protect you. What. The. Hell.
You are living in order established by violence, a violently imposed order and when individuals like me, Al, guys in the video and others call for all violence to end (including that which is institutionalized and legitimized via government), you say ending all violence will lead to chaos? How much more inside out can your minds be?
It's like saying that the goal of ending all violence will lead to violence.
Amazing.
Previous comment was deleted while I found a way to spell check it.
Having succeded here it is again.
Al. Exactly.
Over a long period of time men may figure out that if they behaved well they would not need a government and do away with it. The people in government know this so what do you think that the government does to prevent this. Non-rhetorical thought I know that you understand this.
The main problem is that people with a patience problem are going to latch on to a portion of your idea and find some profit motive and very eloquently convince people to do things that would cause chaos and then unwilling to admit their own cuppability will in the same eloquent way convince people who someone else is at fault. The lies beget lies and the next thing you know you have battles lines with others running around in the rear trying to purge what they think are the eeeevil or wicked peo-ple unable to separate an idea from the person. Death and holocaust abound. Anarchy your way is an unrecognizable goal because of the very basest of human behaviors. The thing that when under personal control makes men great but with out self-control leads to hitleresk atrocities. That base human drive???? Is to improve ones on personal enviroment. To secure ones own personal future. To ease lifes struggle. My primary angst with the videos you show here are that by using shocking metaphors that may have a point but because of the telephonic way that people communicate it will simply turn into the ‘Government is a whore’ (which it is) and raise peoples ire one more notch. The anger of the people is so high in this day and age it would only take one large atrocity to for it all to burst out into a mega violence.
Think of the people’s anger like a raging river filling up a lake held back by a dam. All it will take is one great rain and the dam will overflow. However there is another problem. The damn is old and getting brittle. The pundits are trying to build the dam higher and have been successful so far but as the dam is growing higher to contain the flood the engineers are crying out that the now lower portion was not meant to sustain the new stress. The dam will break and then all hell will break loose which always leads to a lot of dead people.
Mankind then comes to its senses once agin and makes promises to T-R-Y not to do it again. So they set up councils of the wisest men they can find to develop an “all-encompassing” format by which men can live by. Long story short, round and round he goes once again. Like some insane maniacle merry go round. When will men get off? Man will never get off because of the degradation caused by corruption of history and the ignorance of youth and other people who in their hunt for nothing but pleasure who say “that was then this is now”. “It was different when you were young dad or mom we are not like that now.
Bullshit. The base human desire to improve ones own personal surroundings continues on.
Enough is enough.
Peace.
Peace begins with the understanding that you have everything you need.
Anything else is luxury
Dan.
We are not in chaos yet. If you have the ability to please visit other countries like in africa or just watch the amazing race where the contestants are driving past miles of piled up garbage. where death and disease murder and pillaging are the norm. Where the government exists in name only and those in power do not care.
Nooo, we may be verging or walking a fence line of but do not mistake your confusion concernig what to do or how to vote with chaos.
We the people are still in control and the Government is yet not emboldened enough to try overtly to take control. The US Government had reached the end of the line covertly speaking to do so. Now we wait and continue to hound then about the constitution. We win. The People 1 the world 0.
Thank you Daniel, for your comments here and on the previous post about your article.
I don't know, Ron. How many of us asked for a trillion(s?) dollar deficit? Somebody's yanking that control out of Our hands.
My perambulations through history have led me to believe that the tasks that governments do need to be done by seperate groups, preferably as local as possible, without the right to use force. And defense is the responsibility of each person, individually. We unite to handle threats on a case by case basis.
Al, You are not wrong that force has been used inappropriately and I guarantee you that I am as vehemently opposed to it as you or anyone else who gives a care about peaceful existence.
I just came across a page that gives the estimate of 170,000,000 killed by their own governments this last century through out the world. I do not doubt the figure. I have not read of anyone or anything that has suggested any alternative to this current world or national situation that does not neglect one aspect of mankind’s collective personality and I have come to the conclusion that all (perfectly all) traits and tendencies must be accounted for and none can be negated else proposed solutions fail and degrade into moments…….. historical moments of chaos.
Every time chaos erupts, huge numbers of people die. Suffering abounds.
My heart aches to think that what I care about so much destroys itself.
Like Ihave said. I love living and hate my life but not because I hate myself so much but because I see on the news and hear people around me and see it in there eyes………..the pain. I am sure that if I did not turn off my perception so to say that It would kill me or I would go stark raving mad. I am impotent to stop others agony. The only thing I can do is give a bum some money or a shelter or some food. I can only do that. When I do, I get a little reprieve from others fears. I smile and laugh and make jokes to bring a moment of joy to others. All I get is a moment of joy knowing that Maybe just maybe that was all that person needed to keep going or just that momentary boost that got someone over a bad spot. That is all I can do. That is all anyone can do. Any effort beyond that from what I can tell fails.
There are others who are succesful on a wider scale but the format is the same. Dumb old song got it right. Spread a little love in this world, let a little love in your heart. If you can cause a smile you are greater for it. All of that goofy clowning around on my part that made people think I was a nut and all the jokes that went on behind my back. The smiles were what I wanted to see. And when I was chided. I laughed right along with them because if I thought about it, it was audacious and ridiculous.
I didn’t want anyones attention beyond what was needed to get them to laugh. I do not personally cultivate relationships. I do not need them(gasp). I do need others to cultivate whatsoever relationship they would desire. If you think about what these videos you have posted are about none of them propose any solutions but destruction of something and that will not make any one happy.
Knowledge could last forever but wisdom only lives in one generation and must be relearned by experience every, I am going to say 20 years with men. I am also going to throw out there arbitrarily; generation to generation starts and ends every even decade, just for fun. I think you will note that there are remarkable changes say from the 40’s-59 to the 60’s-79 to the 80’s-99. That would make for overlapping generations; up to 6, alive at any one given time.
In the SmAss vernacular’ you have to kiss 6 generations ass to get anything done. In order to kiss their ass you have to know them to know where the sweet spot on their ass is(having thought that I am going to have a moment of trouble getting that image out of my head); understanding them won’t get it. Too often the word understanding is used to manipulate people and peoples. And I think I can honestly say that nobody and I mean nooobody wants to be manipulated.
The first 6 living generations that live in peace will win a very long-term peace. I am rambling, but funny how it all connects up like the hooks for hands in monkeys in a barrel.
When you reach a period when the gap between the oldest and youngest generations belief systems grows too wide there in lay wars. Hence the violence as one set of generations allies itself with others hopefully to win its course or defend its way of living. The nuances are much more intricate but there is enough for you to go out there into the big wide world and make your own observations.
There is one common denominator. Laughter. Fun and funny. Feed them clothe them and house them. Kindness. Be a joy bringer because in the end that is all there is going to be
I posted my coment as a blog article in a new web site in case you lose this one.
Starsplash, my goal is cessation of all violence. Bringing up places where there is *relatively* more violence than somewhere else is pointless. I want to end it all. If government, as is so easily demonstrated, IS legitimized violence then certainly it is not a way to end all violence.
Violence is the failure of "anarchy". Those who advocate any government are therefore advocating failure, in the name of success.
It's like a peace activist saying that we need war to prevent war saying that if we have total peace someone might start a war and pointing to places at war as "proof". What utter BS.
This society is far more Orwellian than most people realize.
Daniel, If you mean What is it Orwelles book 1984 then yes I agree.
The world is more Orwellian.
But I am not saying that peace need come of war what I am saying is that I am unable to cause peace and that mega war is inevitable not becuase I support it but because too many, way too many people think they have to squelch other people and I may not be any better than they.
Because I have a need to squelch people who want to squelch people.
Unfortunatley Peace is apparently not for men to achieve because there may always be murdering phychopaths amongst mankind and greedy meglomaniacs with their greedy phycophants who don't care who's lives they disrupt to gain.
I use shock as a tool to get people to think about what they are doing and to disrupt their thought processes long enough in the vain hope that maybe they will come to thier senses and stop knowingly trampling all over others.
Vain attempt; is the key word, because insainly I think that is the only hope for men to come to their senses and just leave each other alone or at worst help each other to achieve something. I use worst on purpose making this an extrodinarly narrow path. The best being doing nothing and the worst helping someone.
Either way you flip that one turns out good.
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